Schalk notes how this understanding of racism and ableism as mutually constitutive has also lead to conversations between contemporary Black Disability Cultural Workers about if there is a need for a more expansive definition of ableism. Schalk highlights a definition of ableism that is "a system that places value on people's bodies and minds based on societally constructed ideas of normalcy, intelligence, excellence and productivity. These constructed ideas are deeply rooted in anti-Blackness, eugenics, colonialism and capitalism. This form of systemic oppression leads to people and society determining who is valuable and worthy based on a person's appearance and/or their ability to satisfactorily [re]produce, excel and 'behave.' You do not have to be disabled to to experience ableism." This definition takes on an expansive definition of ableism and highlights the co-constructive nature of ableism and anti-Black racism.